Hi Wnodom! I really admire your recent edits, and the way you have boldly cleaned up several tips.

Thanks. I'm glad that wasn't a problem. I'm a fan of the "be bold" philosophy, but I know it's easy to get overzealous.
Wnodom 06:58, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I see you know your way around the wiki, but if you have anything you want to discuss, please reply here, or post on my talk page.

You might like to create your user page (can be very simple, perhaps just say how long you've used Vim – see Special:Listusers for some ideas). You are welcome to put any to-do or other notes related to Vim or the wiki under your user page.

Done. Not much there yet, but at least it's no longer a red link. :-)
Wnodom 06:58, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

It could be argued that I fuss too much, but I'm going to add some comments below on things I've noticed. I hope you will do more work here, and I would like to add any further thoughts, if you don't mind.

Not at all. Feedback is welcome and appreciated.
Wnodom 06:58, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't worry too much about the accuracy of your edit summaries. It is useful to have a summary, but particularly when I've worked on some poorly written tips, I've just put a summary like "major clean". --JohnBeckett 13:15, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Annoying "Hit any key to close this window..."Edit

I like your recommendation to delete this. You noted that one of the comments should be retained. Later, after due process on Category:Candidates for deletion, I'll delete the page and try to find somewhere to put that info, even if I only move it to a temporary page. If you notice somewhere to put it, please copy it yourself and update your note in the delete template so I know I don't have to do anything. --JohnBeckett 13:15, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Will do.
Wnodom 06:58, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Done. The comment has been incorporated into tip #16, Avoiding the "Hit ENTER to continue" prompts.
Wnodom 07:35, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Background grep searchesEdit

FYI: I am now deleting the '----' line under ==Comments== if there are no comments.

Originally I always kept that line so any categories could be placed below it, and so it would give users a clue that they could use '----' to separate comments. However, now that we are putting categories in the TipImported or TipNew template, I feel that there should be no '----' if there are no comments. The reason is that I have seen users get confused about where to type their comment. They go to edit the page, and find stuff like an inexplicable '----' quite confusing.

Here is an example of a tip with no '----'.

Please don't sweat over trivia like this, and I wouldn't bother editing a tip just to remove that line. I'm just mentioning it in case you notice some tips without the '----' and wonder what's going on. --JohnBeckett 13:15, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. I had noticed the inconsistency as I made more edits, and wasn't sure what was preferred.
Wnodom 06:58, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Vimrc exampleEdit

Thanks for recommending deletion of this! I have never quite had the courage to do it. However stuff like this tip is just a waste of time (editors when they wonder what to do with it, and readers when they wonder whether to study it). I will copy these comments to the Category_talk:Candidates for deletion page later. --JohnBeckett 13:15, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

While I don't think we should christen any one particular vimrc (and especially that one) as "the" example, I think there's value in lucid, well-documented samples that people can use as a springboard to building their own. I know I've learned a lot from looking at others' work, even when it wasn't necessarily applicable to my particular environment. Perhaps people could be encouraged to post their vimrc/gvimrc/etc. files (or links to them) on their user pages? Then tips stay tips, but we all get the benefits of looking over each other's shoulders, too.
Wnodom 06:58, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Vim TutorialsEdit

It was a good idea to remove the comments. We have a few tips of this nature (mainly a link to some external site). They are not much use in scattered tips.

For tips like this, I plan to move the links to some suitable page, then delete the tip. My first step was to create the Vim documentation page that appears as a link at the bottom of the Main Page. You might like to think about whether the Vim documentation page could take the links, with a brief description (or whether the result would be too complex for one page, bearing in mind the other stuff it contains). --JohnBeckett 13:15, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. I think a page collecting useful websites is a much better idea than leaving random one-link tips littering the wiki. It also makes it easier to notice and correct stale URLs.
Wnodom 06:58, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


Hi Bill – I'm glad you're continuing your excellent edits. Here are some thoughts on categories. I pose some tough questions, and I don't expect answers. I'm just raising this in the hope that you will think about categories, and express your thoughts later (I need ideas). Ideally we would discuss this on the vim-l mailing list.

Categories are very important, but we haven't worked out how to properly handle them. I was thinking that the contents page in Vim help might be a guide to how our categories could be organised.

In some recent edits:

As you can see from the discussion on category Windows I have doubts about how best to use the Windows category. I have no idea what the gadget mentioned in tip 1103 is, but since the author refers to "C:\..." it's likely to be MS-Windows only. So I would agree with the category, I suppose. However, what is the point of applying that category to this tip? Does it help the reader? Would it help someone wanting to find all tips relating to Windows? Would it be more helpful if category Windows indicated tips about using Vim on MS-Windows that is not applicable to other systems (e.g. tips that mention the Windows registery). In principle, this tip might apply to other systems, if the gadget were available for those systems?

In tip 72, you should remove category Usage if adding Searching, because:

  • Usage is a parent of Searching, so Searching implies Usage (a tip on searching is a tip on usage).
  • We only use category Usage when we have no clue about a good category, except that the tip is not about one of the other first-level items that appear under category VimTip.

Again, I'm not sure whether this category is helpful for this tip (I'm not suggesting you remove Searching; I'm looking for thoughts). If I were thinking "I'd like to find a tip on deleting empty lines", would I look in category Searching? Should every tip that uses the / or :g commands be in category Searching? (Answer: No, because the category would be too large to be helpful.)

See the category guidelines for more.

I would be interested in any thoughts you have, but I don't expect a quick reply. I've put off dealing with categories for six months because it's tricky. --JohnBeckett 05:37, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

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